CO-WC — Hello Maria, please tell us who you are.

Maria-Christina Piwowarski — My name is Maria-Christina Piwowarski and I am a bookseller at „ocelot, not just another bookstore." I've been running the business since 2012. It's not my own shop, but I feel like it.

CO-WC — What's the story of ocelot bookstore? How did it begin?

Maria-Christina Piwowarski — The former owner noticed that there were only a few big bookstores serving coffee, and most of the smaller ones were rather plain, especially in Berlin's Mitte district. He thought it would be a good idea to open an alternative bookstore as a counterpart to Dussmann — a roomy and comfortable place with a café where people can spend time, with or without purchasing books. He wanted to create a relaxing atmosphere, and he did. There was a change of ownership in 2015, but the initial concept hasn't changed. We do excellent bookselling. We have a great assortment, work a lot on recommendations, and organise events to present literature as something experienceable and accessible. A spacious room enables us to create a relaxed atmosphere where people want to stay and enjoy literature.

CO-WC — Since when does the ocelot bookstore exist?

Maria-Christina Piwowarski — Since 2012.

CO-WC — What does the name „ocelot, not just another bookstore" signify?

Maria-Christina Piwowarski — The word ocelot sounds simply great. An ocelot is a South American wildcat — we also have a picture in the store because people always ask about it. Of course, you need a good tagline to define yourself. Ours is „not just another bookstore." It might sound pejorative to some, not wanting to be like others. But we are on a pretty cool corner right between Berlin Mitte and Wedding. Things are not as stringent as around the fancy area of Hackescher Markt, to put it cautiously — just a little bit more urban here. We have a clientele interested in literature and financially stable enough to sustain us. Beyond that, it is genuinely an attempt to be a special place. As the name ocelot implies…

CO-WC — You serve tasty coffee and organise events. How important is that to you?

Maria-Christina Piwowarski — My primary job is classic assortment work. The main pillar of our work is deciding which books come in, what we want to present, recommend, and feature. All bookstores do it very differently. In Berlin, there are incredibly great shops specialised in thrillers, nature, or multilingual titles. For us, it is essential that people want to stay in the store — you should have the feeling that this is a place where you are not being observed, and where you can sit down and read.

CO-WC — And you also serve coffee…

Maria-Christina Piwowarski — Coffee is part of it, of course. I cannot work without coffee somehow. The scent adds incredible energy to the atmosphere. We have a La Marzocco portafilter machine — an ideal model that makes excellent coffee. For a long time, we searched for coffee beans we actually want to drink every day. We also offer water and non-caffeinated drinks. There is a steady clientele who prefers chai teas or hot chocolates. The point is that we want people to feel at home. We don't overdo it — we don't wait at table. But we are in Berlin Mitte. People have higher standards.

CO-WC — You have to be more than a bookstore…

Maria-Christina Piwowarski — Many bookstores focus only on books. But I think you have to offer something else, because books can be bought everywhere at a fixed price — books written in German cost the same in every bookstore in Germany. So you have to offer something extra. In my opinion, it comes in the form of care. It is important to add a personalised note.

CO-WC — How do you select books? What are your criteria?

Maria-Christina Piwowarski — I trained as a classical bookseller. This means I look at publisher previews and speak with representatives of publishing houses. But I also rely on my experience — often based on what my team and I like to read. Ideally, we read the books before placing them on our shelves. It has to be a well-balanced mix. I cannot afford not to stock the new Frank Schätzing, because people want it. But I also have to make a selection that surprises our customers.

CO-WC — What about independent publishers?

Maria-Christina Piwowarski — We have a big heart for small, independent publishers who often produce very special books without a big marketing budget. Customers literally fall in love with an entire publishing house. They discover something and think, wow, amazing books — and then we get into a conversation. Ideally, we know a story about the publisher and can say a lot about their books. The selection is thus a very intuitive one.

CO-WC — You choose books based on interest and taste.

Maria-Christina Piwowarski — Yes, absolutely. I've been doing this for a while. I know my audience, I know the questions of people who come in and say, "Oh, I need something to read." I sense what can probably make them happy and come up with it while they are browsing. And then I surprise them with something they haven't expected at all.

CO-WC — Is there a genre that doesn't appeal to you at all?

Maria-Christina Piwowarski — We don't really need architecture guidebooks anymore — our customers barely want them, or get them elsewhere in better-stocked stores such as Dussmann or Walter König. We have a small poetry shelf. The economic justification is certainly questionable, but we like it and are happy to have it. We cannot offer everything, though. We don't stock books like How to Take Care of My Potted Plants, for instance (laughs). You have to position yourself for and against certain things.

CO-WC — Many people order books online. How do you deal with the challenges of online trading?

Maria-Christina Piwowarski — We are now trying online retail to keep up with the pace. We are connected to a great online shop called Genialokal. First, we need to distribute e-books. Second, we want to be available during our off-hours. This online shop has a great advantage — you can check whether certain books are in stock. If not available, you can pre-order online and pick them up in our store. This function is being actively used. And then everything can develop in a positive way: I am here, I have a coffee and a book.

CO-WC — So you've come to terms with online commerce…

Maria-Christina Piwowarski — We don't try to bash online trading too much. Ocelot deals with it pragmatically. I have many people coming here saying that buying books online is completely out of the question for them. On Amazon, they buy food for their cats. Nothing against small cat food stores — they should do that. But they cannot recommend books. They only have an algorithm.

CO-WC — Do hardcovers and paperbacks have a future?

Maria-Christina Piwowarski — There is something appealing about e-books and you have to see it as an opportunity. There are books you can read over a weekend — some thrillers you can finish within a few hours and they are a lot of fun. But you don't necessarily want them on your shelf as an ornament or to share with other people. For that matter, e-books have a very good reason to exist. But many publishers put enormous effort into hardcover printing. There are gorgeous-looking books where publishers place great value on paper quality, binding materials, bookmarks, and typesetting. It takes a lot of effort to create an impressive haptic experience. E-books and printed books will work well side by side.

CO-WC — Which book would you take on vacation with you?

Maria-Christina Piwowarski — If I haven't read it yet, the new book by Nino Haratischwili. Georgia was a guest at the Frankfurt Book Fair. Haratischwili writes in German but was born in Georgia and has many Georgian references in her books. Her latest work deals with the Chechen conflict. She is one of the most brilliant authors of our time.

CO-WC — E-book or paperback?

Maria-Christina Piwowarski — There are e-books with a translation function, bookmarks, and the ability to make comments. However, Nino Haratischwili is someone whose books I have to fill with dog-ears, underline countless sentences, and cover in notes. And it is a book I constantly lend to other people. I would take it in print — even though it has 700 pages.

CO-WC — You are active on social media — recommendations, live streaming of events, and so on. What is your motivation and how important is it to you?

Maria-Christina Piwowarski — We used to have Facebook only, and I really liked it — it was a nice platform to introduce new books. One day, my boss from Heidelberg said I should open an Instagram account as well. I never understood Instagram; it seemed superficial to me. I was not thrilled, so my bosses suggested having an intern manage it. Then it became clear to me: nothing goes out of this store without passing through my own hands.

CO-WC — And how was it at the beginning?

Maria-Christina Piwowarski — In the beginning, I had many prejudices. I thought I would just post flowers and books next to coffee or something like that. Then I quickly found an incredibly beautiful, literature-loving community. People celebrate books, and at the same time they are grateful to receive information about books, publishers, and our bookstore. Meanwhile, Instagram has become our favourite channel because it is so easy to use. When we feel like doing a story, we just do it — we don't think about perfection. We simply want to let people participate in what we are genuinely interested in. That is great.

CO-WC — People watch your live streaming events online, write comments, and voice their opinions. Is this how cultural participation works today?

Maria-Christina Piwowarski — I see live streaming of readings as a cultural responsibility. No woman or man who stays at home with a baby should be excluded. We are in 2018 — there is no problem filming an event with a mobile phone for an hour. We want to reach as many people as possible.

CO-WC — This is a democratic approach, so to say.

Maria-Christina Piwowarski — Exactly. Everything has to pay off in the end. If you watch a live stream, you only get an hour of reading — but you don't have to pay for a ticket. We take advantage of the opportunities we have and inspire people. That works very well, thankfully.

CO-WC — How important is culture for society?

Maria-Christina Piwowarski — Elemental. Political upheavals often came from art and artists. If we look at the power of media and artists positioning themselves for or against something, it is beyond debate. It may not always seem so today. When any TV star says something, we tend to treat it as equally valuable. But there is a big difference. Literature still plays a significant role. Important topics are often discussed in literature before they enter real public debate — sometimes in parallel, sometimes followed up later. I don't need to stock historical volumes about the Thirty Years' War. But I do have many philosophical debates and essay works on the very topics that trouble us socially and politically. Many books appear on important topics. We want to have them to inform people and reflect the flow of public opinion.

CO-WC — Literature as a mirror of society and a place where new visions emerge…

Maria-Christina Piwowarski — … and despite Wikipedia as a refrigerator of knowledge from which you draw.

CO-WC — Can you tell us more about your customers?

Maria-Christina Piwowarski — They are very different. Many of our customers live nearby and we want to be a bookstore for people rooted in this neighbourhood. But we also try to meet tourists' needs, simply because it is a wonderful clientele. We were featured in a Dutch travel guide and one day many enthusiastic Dutch visitors appeared in our store — that was very nice. We also try to grow our English-language literature segment. It has expanded noticeably here, largely due to an educated, internationally-minded public who want to read originals.

CO-WC — Do many customers come from the surrounding area?

Maria-Christina Piwowarski — There are many offices and agencies nearby. People working there see us as an attractive lunch break spot where you can get a tasty coffee. And I am always happy to hear from people who tell me that when they come to Berlin, they visit us because they know us from Facebook or Instagram. I really appreciate that. It's just wonderful to see people who care about us and put us on their sightseeing list. Our clientele is a very colourful mix.

CO-WC — Let's talk about all-gender restrooms. How did ocelot come up with a restroom for everybody?

Maria-Christina Piwowarski — We need to provide a public restroom because of our café. If your premises exceed a certain size, you are required to have one. There are two toilets in the back with a shared sink in the hallway. We quickly decided: one for staff and one for customers. It never occurred to us that we would need to separate the cabins by gender — we simply said, here is one toilet for those who feel male and one for those who feel female. It was always clear to us: our customers use one room and we use the other.

CO-WC — Do customers sometimes ask for a ladies' or men's restroom?

Maria-Christina Piwowarski — At first glance, our customers may appear a bit bourgeois. But they are totally open and attentive. This is a great advantage of Mitte compared to some other districts in Berlin — there are much more conservative areas where this might be a problem. We have none here. I have never felt the need to explain or justify our bathroom arrangement.

CO-WC — How did you decide to label the bathroom?

Maria-Christina Piwowarski — Ocelot already had pictograms — simple lines for the male and female figure. For us, this was a typographically clean solution. We didn't think too much about it. The signs were hanging side by side on the door, and when you go through the door, there is a toilet.

CO-WC — Our goal is to draw attention to the pictographic image and its cultural effects. Old pictograms reduce our potential selves to either man or woman over and over again. But we can deconstruct given structures for a more open and free society.

Maria-Christina Piwowarski — It has been in us for a long time. There are signs of a woman holding a child by the hand — it is always a woman and a child, and so on…

CO-WC — There is a gap between theory and practice. We are open-minded and critical, yet in everyday life we almost naturally follow anachronistic WC signs. This is the force of habit.

Maria-Christina Piwowarski — It would be wonderful if we could overcome this old tradition one day and no longer have to think about these things. That is the goal — and it would be better for society. But it takes time. It is always like that.

CO-WC — Now, the all-gender restroom is a global trend and pushes us to reflect on life. How do you feel about it?

Maria-Christina Piwowarski — It is absolutely an issue. Many people are still untouched by gender topics because they are simply unaware. But there are stories of people who are in transition — for example Maggie Nelson and her book The Argonauts, which tells of being married to a man who has adapted his gender. Such topics infiltrate literature and cinema, where people can come into contact with them. Things are slowly spreading through art and culture into broader society. This is how you encounter these realities, even without being lucky enough to know someone personally who shares similar experiences.

CO-WC — There is still a long way to go…

Maria-Christina Piwowarski — There are reservations, of course. My children's school and day care centre still says: you're a boy, you have to do this, or you're a girl, you shouldn't do that. And what about children in between? It is important to give them space and simply say: hey, it's okay to feel the way you do. This does happen, but slowly. Trans* people face this problem all the time — which changing room or bathroom to use — and then have to justify themselves. These examples show how important it is to be sensitised. For example, we have awkward front steps here — but in the back of ocelot there is a barrier-free access. I try to be attentive so people do not have to ask for help. The same goes for all-gender bathrooms: I want them to be low-threshold and easily accessible for everyone, so that you don't feel stupid or uncomfortable.

CO-WC — All-gender restrooms are a matter of social debate. The pictographic image culture slowly begins to appear as a problem…

Maria-Christina Piwowarski — For me, the place behind the door is simply a toilet. All people go through this door. What I actually thought was cool about your approach is that you don't have to decide which door to go through — because you are simply at the right door. But you have to communicate it somehow. And I thought our old signs were fine for both. Of course, everything in between was missing. Now I see your sign, which indeed represents the in-betweenness — you have the man and woman, and everything that comes in various shades in between, all in one pictogram. I think: cool, that's better, more elegant, and definitely a fairer solution. But you had to come first and show it to me, and I am grateful for that.

CO-WC — We are happy to be here. And our discussion shows we are on the right track. But there is still a long way to go…

Maria-Christina Piwowarski — I notice that in the shop as well. There are people who say they would like to buy a book for a girl. Personally, I don't care — I just want to recommend books, and it should not matter whether it's for a boy or a girl. There is a growing awareness that this binary framing cannot meet our standards. Especially in Berlin you can sense this culture. Ocelot once had a shop window with big letters reading „the world is fluid," filled with books discussing gender issues and reflecting on stereotypical thinking. It was very well received. People are interested in how they can help and what they can do.

CO-WC — There is a lot going on today, in both the theoretical and practical sphere. We want to close the gap between gender discourse and visual culture to change reality.

Maria-Christina Piwowarski — There will always be people who invent something and offer a solution. I believe that's exactly why you are probably right — you can barely solve something purely on a high educational level. There are enough gender theories discussing this matter, but none of them has built a sign for everyday life. And that is the point. The sign is something that infiltrates the eye completely automatically. I think many people have not realised what this sign can tell. They just thought: aha, here's the loo. That is great too. But whenever people reacted to the sign, I received only encouragement.

CO-WC — For us, the project is also a bridge between past and future. Maybe one day we will no longer feel reduced, and see each other simply as humans. The gender section with a mirror already causes so much noise and reflection — it reflects ourselves, but doesn't show exactly who you are.

Maria-Christina Piwowarski — I love it too. It is my favourite section in ocelot. Next to it is philosophy — and maybe I have to minimise philosophy a little and make the feminism section a bit bigger.

// CONTACT

ocelot, not just another bookstore
Brunnenstr. 181
10119 Berlin
Germany

Mon–Sat: 10 am – 8 pm
Phone: +49 (30) 97894592
E-Mail: info@ocelot.de
www.ocelot.de